Here are the observations I've made so far. I'll divide them into Thermostat, Insteon Adapter and Indigo categories (I may not get them in the right category, feel free to edit).

Thermostat:
The reason to buy the more expensive T1800/T1900 is the ability to support "Dual-Fuel" HVAC systems.

1. This requires you to purchase an external temperature sensor (not clearly spelled out on MacHomeStore or SmartHome).

2. The thermostat won't allow you to set the "Dual-Fuel" crossover temperature to less than 32 degrees F. My modern heat pump does well down into the low 20 degree range.

3. The thermostat does not allow you to "calibrate" the external sensor (RS2) used for the dual fuel crossover. It does allow calibration of the built-in and remote (RS1) sensors (At first I thought I could cheat a few degrees on the dual-fuel crossover point by re-calibrating the dual fuel sensor).

Insteon Adapter:
I installed the T1900 with Insteon Adapter for two reasons:

1. To be able to more finely control the running of the HVAC system.

2. To be able to monitor and record the system's actions.

The Thermostat/Adapter combination does number 1 reasonably well, I don't think it provides nearly enough information for number 2. For example:

1. You can't read or write any of the Thermostat "Settings" (e.g. the Time, Date, Deadband settings, etc.) from Indigo.

2. The temperature returned to Indigo by a poll is an integer, not a real. When you watch the household temperature responding to heat it moves in 1 degree jumps (e.g. 1 decimal place would be much better).

3. The value of the the outdoor sensor (RS1) or the dual-fuel sensor (RS2) can not be read from Indigo.

4. Staging activity, e.g. when the thermostat decides to go from heat Stage 1 to Stage 2 to Stage 3 is not reported in any way. I'm guessing that similarly, Cooling staging activity isn't reported either (I haven't tried this yet, its cold in the Poconos now).

Indigo:
Works great as far as it can except that it polls the adapter rather than listening to Insteon messages from the adapter announcing state changes. Interestingly, I think Matt has said that the Thermostat does send such state change messages but in my tinkering with attachment scripts and "on receive insteon event" I have never seen any messages of this type. I do see "Start" and "Stop" messages but not messages related to temperature change or containing temperature information.

That's it for now. I'll update my list as I do more tinkering.

As always, thanks for your help. Indigo is a great product; very reliable and easy to use.

DougPA wrote:Works great as far as it can except that it polls the adapter rather than listening to Insteon messages from the adapter announcing state changes. Interestingly, I think Matt has said that the Thermostat does send such state change messages but in my tinkering with attachment scripts and "on receive insteon event" I have never seen any messages of this type. I do see "Start" and "Stop" messages but not messages related to temperature change or containing temperature information.

Only the firmware v2 adaptors report changes (rather than polling). Currently, if you redefine and sync, you can create triggers to catch those group messages. We hope to fully support the v2 adaptors in Indigo 5.0 next year.

Jay,

I opened the Thermostat device and did a "define and sync". Here's the log:

Nov 3, 2010 7:13:56 PM
PowerLinc Linking - entered discovery linking mode (240 seconds)
PowerLinc Linking - sending id request for device information
PowerLinc Linking - received module button pressed from 14.13.CC
PowerLinc Linking - sending id request for device information
PowerLinc Linking - received id request response from 14.13.CC
PowerLinc Linking - initializing remote device "Thermostat" (address 14.13.CC, firmware version 91)
PowerLinc Linking - initialize complete
PowerLinc Linking - syncing remote device "Thermostat" (address 14.13.CC, firmware version 91)
PowerLinc Linking - syncing all links
PowerLinc Linking - . . . read: INSTEON dev link to responder 13.AC.4F, flags E2, group 01, data 00 52 3E
PowerLinc Linking - . . . read: INSTEON dev link to responder 13.AC.4F, flags E2, group 02, data 00 52 3E
PowerLinc Linking - . . . read: INSTEON dev link to responder 13.AC.4F, flags E2, group 03, data 00 52 3E
PowerLinc Linking - . . . read: INSTEON dev link to responder 13.AC.4F, flags E2, group 04, data 00 52 3E
PowerLinc Linking - . . found: PowerLinc responder for group 1
PowerLinc Linking - . . found: PowerLinc responder for group 2
PowerLinc Linking - . . found: PowerLinc responder for group 3
PowerLinc Linking - . . found: PowerLinc responder for group 4
PowerLinc Linking - comparing local and remote links
PowerLinc Linking - compare complete
PowerLinc Linking - sync complete
PowerLinc Linking - device "Thermostat" links updated
PowerLinc Linking - exited linking mode

When I create a new Insteon Trigger and select the Thermostat as the device I only see Groups 1, 2 & 3 yet in the log I see mention of Group 4. What is Group 4?

I've also turned on my "on receive insteon event" attachment script to see if I see additional messages from the thermostat (so far I have not).

Group 4 is a magical link link that tells the thermostat to report other changes to Indigo's PowerLinc, like temperature, humidity and setpoint changes.

It isn't useful for catching via Trigger Actions, so ideally it wouldn't show up in the Trigger Action UI. But currently, since Indigo adds that link to the thermostat, it thinks it has to show it in the UI. So... just ignore it.

Also note that Indigo 4.1 doesn't currently catch the thermostat / setpoint changes being sent by the thermostat as the result of this link. But that is something we hope to add into a future version (5.0), so we wanted to ago ahead and have Indigo automatically add the link when you Define and Sync.

I've pointed SmartLabs to your original post on this thread as feature request feedback for future revs.

DougPA wrote:J
When I create a new Insteon Trigger and select the Thermostat as the device I only see Groups 1, 2 & 3 yet in the log I see mention of Group 4. What is Group 4?

I have looked through this thread, and must be missing where Groups 1, 2 & 3 are described. Can anyone enlighten me?

It is difficult to find a central and concise source for this type of information. By tinkering with my Thermostat/Adapter combo I've pieced together the following:

Group 1 (or "button 1"): COOL, ON = Started, OFF = Stopped

Group 2 (or "button 2"): HEAT, ON = Started, OFF = Stopped

Group 3: (or button "3") FAN, ON = ?? (not exactly sure)

You can see these if you create a new TRIGGER in Indigo, select the Thermostat Device and dropdown the Group list

This was initially posted in another thread. But, I thought it might be of interest here as well (edited):

bschollnick2 wrote:...I haven't heard any feedback from anyone using the new integrated Venstar / Insteon adapter. The newest version has the adapter built-into the Venstar unit... So, I'm curious to hear any feedback from anyone to see if that seems to be any better speed / reliability wise.

The new (Model 4715 7 Day Thermostat) may be hard to buy. According to SmartLabs ...SMART products ... include advanced, highly customized features that are available only to the dealer/installer.

BTW, for Venstar tstat owners, I found this interesting article [HOW-TO] Install Your Insteon Wireless Thermostat Module Internally.

I'm completely underwhelmed by the Spec sheet and the Quick Start for this device. Hopefully, more info will be forthcoming but from the existing documentation I don't see any indication they have addressed any of the T1800/T1900 and/or Insteon Adapter shortcomings.

berkinet wrote:BTW, for Venstar tstat owners, I found this interesting article [HOW-TO] Install Your Insteon Wireless Thermostat Module Internally.

Nice...but eliminates the ability to do a factory reset if needed. (other functions requiring the use of the set button can be done within Indigo, I believe).

mmm wrote: The thermostat powers up great and heat works just fine, but if I try to kick on the air conditioning the compressor kicks on for a second and the thermostat turns off, which returns power to the blue line, which makes the thermostat come back on, which reconnects the compressor to ground, which cuts off the thermostat...

I think I have a similar problem. I installed my T1800 over the summer, and it was great being able to bump the AC a degree or two from bed in the middle of the night, via Indigo on my iPod.

When I installed the T1800, I had to wire up an unused wire to the C screw in my furnace. Everything appeared to work, until this fall when the heat started kicking on. What happens is that the heat burner kicks on for a minute or three, then it sounds like the fan kicks on, and the thermostat loses power. After a few minutes, the thermostat powers up again.

This is annoying for several reasons. 1) over a night, the clock on the thermostat loses time, so the morning cycle doesn't start on time. 2) if you've manually increased the set point, when the heat kicks on and the thermostat cycles power, it goes back to the programmed temperature, which is (at this time of year) too low. 3) It just isn't working right, which bugs the heck out of me.

So, I'm not sure what to do in this case, except look for a different "common" point to wire the thermostat to.

Does anyone have any ideas or insight into what's going on?

Thanks!

Flenser wrote:

mmm wrote: The thermostat powers up great and heat works just fine, but if I try to kick on the air conditioning the compressor kicks on for a second and the thermostat turns off, which returns power to the blue line, which makes the thermostat come back on, which reconnects the compressor to ground, which cuts off the thermostat...

I think I have a similar problem. I installed my T1800 over the summer, and it was great being able to bump the AC a degree or two from bed in the middle of the night, via Indigo on my iPod.

When I installed the T1800, I had to wire up an unused wire to the C screw in my furnace. Everything appeared to work, until this fall when the heat started kicking on. What happens is that the heat burner kicks on for a minute or three, then it sounds like the fan kicks on, and the thermostat loses power. After a few minutes, the thermostat powers up again.

This is annoying for several reasons. 1) over a night, the clock on the thermostat loses time, so the morning cycle doesn't start on time. 2) if you've manually increased the set point, when the heat kicks on and the thermostat cycles power, it goes back to the programmed temperature, which is (at this time of year) too low. 3) It just isn't working right, which bugs the heck out of me.

So, I'm not sure what to do in this case, except look for a different "common" point to wire the thermostat to.

Does anyone have any ideas or insight into what's going on?

Thanks!

I had this issue and it turned out to be the zone controller. The problem was not the common, but the R terminal that was was not prividing a contstant 24V. Depending on the controller you have, it may be possible to use the same R terminal at the controller end as you are for the main zone. (I'm assuming you have a multi-zone controller - and could be way off base, but this issue is pretty close to what I was experiencing.)

Can Indigo set which temperature sensor the thermostat uses? I'd like to mount the thermostat downstairs and a remote sensor upstairs; during the day, I'd like the downstairs temperature to control the heat, and at night, I'd like the upstairs temperature to do so. Is that possible?
George

I don't think so. I'm not aware of any command you can send to the thermostat to do that. In my Venstar T1900 there is a setting to say use the "remote sensor" to control the thermostat (Setup #38). You can also set it to average the remote and the internal sensor (Setup #39).

Unfortunately, none of the thermostat settings (not even the datetime) are accessible through the insteon interface. I don't know whether the limitation is the thermostat or the interface.

That's correct - the current adaptor only returns a single temp - either the main one or the averaged temp if you have it configured (I think it'll return the averaged temp).

Darn. Does anyone know of any other solutions that would allow the temperature sensor to be selected dynamically?