Repeated, consecutive 2413U failures

Posted on
Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:56 am
dschuetz offline
Posts: 2
Joined: Feb 10, 2020

Repeated, consecutive 2413U failures

[I also posted this on the formal Insteon forum at the vendor site...I'll try to relay any useful information I get from there into this thread as well...]

About a week ago, I realized that my lights weren't working, and discovered that my 2413U had stopped working. This was already my 2nd unit -- my first was purchased in December of 2012, then I replaced that in February 2018. So this had been in service for just about two years.

It was connected to a 2011-era Mac mini, and plugged into the wall through a single-outlet (wart-like) surge protector. It'd worked pretty well in general.

When it failed, I was seeing lots of errors like "resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)" and such. I tried all the obvious steps -- reboot the computer, power-cycle everything, but nothing worked. So I ordered a replacement from Amazon.

That replacement arrived in a day, I hooked it up, and started to sync links (I'm using Indigo 7.4 -- just updated from 7.3 as this all started). And IMMEDIATELY I got the same errors as on the broken unit. 

I moved it to a different system (a 2019 Mac mini) and got the same errors. After a bit more experimenting, I returned it to Amazon, thinking I just got a bad modem. They shipped me a replacement, which I hooked up, synced, and got most all my devices working again (there were a couple I had to sync two or three times to get done, but I can chalk that up to just normal power line communication issues...)

Then a day later...the replacement also failed, in exactly the same way. If I reboot everything, quit/restart, unplug/replug the USB, etc..., then Indigo can communicate with the 2413U just long enough to say "yes, you're a 2413, great." But as soon as I send any commands, I get the "resending previous command" errors (and occasionally "SendInsteonMessage failed," or "Possible power failure.")


So to sum up:

* unit 1 purchased Dec 2012, lasted 5 years (rev 1.7, 1226)
* unit 2 purchased Feb 2018, lasted 2 years (rev 2.3, 3717)
* unit 3 purchased Feb 2020, DOA (rev 2.5, 1719)
* unit 4 purchased Feb 2020, worked for a day, then dead (rev 2.5 1719)

Units 2-4 all exhibited the same failure mode -- Indigo recognizes it but then commands fail, and once they start to fail, they *all* fail.

For troubleshooting, I have tried:

* a different computer (2019 Mac mini) 
* different power outlets
* different cables
* removing the surge protector
* connecting the PLM through an older USB hub

At this point I'm really getting frustrated. With the exception of the failure a couple years ago, this setup has worked great for a long time. Now all of a sudden, nothing works, and I've had three units all fail in the same way in the space of a week. 

Does anyone have any idea what could be going on? I'll send this latest unit back to Amazon but I'm not sure I want to get another from there...at some point even Amazon may get annoyed with my returning the same product over and over.

I've ordered the Insteon Hub (Alexa version -- I'd prefer the Homekit unit but for some reason that doesn't seem to support nearly as many devices as the generic hub). But I'm not convinced I'll be able to control things as well as I can with Indigo, especially for things like controlling button lights on keypads and such. I'd really rather stick with the 2413U system, but until I get some idea what's destroying my units, I'm reluctant to try *another* one.

It's possible (this is really the only thing I can think of) that my surge protector was failing in some strange way and caused the modems to die -- like if maybe its output was "stuttering" or something and the rapid fluctuations fried part of the circuitry in the modem. It's really the only thing that makes sense. Have we seen something like that before?

Or is it just a simple question of a modem failing for "normal" reasons (lousy capacitors or whatever), and Really Bad Luck got me two older and borderline-failing units from Amazon in a row?


Help!!

Posted on
Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:02 pm
jay (support) offline
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Re: Repeated, consecutive 2413U failures

Lots to unpack here. A few immediate thoughts:

  • If I'm reading right, you had the PowerLinc plugged into a surge protector which was then plugged into the wall. This configuration is known to cause issues in general since those surge suppressors can also mess with the Insteon signaling, so I'm somewhat surprised that it ever worked reliably. I don't think that could cause them to fail, but I'm not a hardware engineer...
  • Please copy/paste exactly the errors you are seeing in the Event Log as there are a variety of errors that may indicate multiple different failure scenarios.
  • What OS version are you running on the older mini?

Jay (Indigo Support)
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Posted on
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:08 am
dschuetz offline
Posts: 2
Joined: Feb 10, 2020

Re: Repeated, consecutive 2413U failures

For the surge protector -- I occasionally had signal issues but always figured it was more about the house (two circuit breaker panels, lots of electronics all over the place, etc.). In general it worked well enough, and I think as more dual-band units arrived it got more reliable. But I was always more paranoid about protecting the computer connected to the PLM (and all the other devices connected to that computer) than about eeking out the last ounce of signal strength. And it's worked fine for at least 7 years (I think I was on the..er..CM11A for some years before that? the old X10 one, also through a surge protector).

On the other hand, if the protector was starting to get flaky then maybe that caused issues.. But I'm not sure I've ever heard of a protector failing by messing up the power it filtered (intermittently dropping power or such). Usually when they fail, they just stop providing the protection, and our power hasn't been bad lately (no storms, no heavy equipment on the line, etc.) so I don't think we've coincidentally had surges sneak past an end-of-life suppressor.


Here are some of the errors:

Connected to PowerLinc 2413U interface on port usbserial-AK05Z8C2
PowerLinc address 53.BF.50, firmware version 9.14
Sent INSTEON "Driveway" off

Feb 10, 2020 at 8:16:38 AM
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Error PowerLinc not responding -- attempting reset
Power Failure possible power failure
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Interface Failure lost connection with interface
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)


I just now hooked it up again and got basically the same result. It *said* it successfully sent a "power on" command to a light, then when hit "send status request" I got the same errors as above, starting with a string of "resending previous command" entries, and continuing through the same "attempting reset", "power failure", two "resends", then "lost connection", then a never-ending stream of "resending" again. Exactly as above.

In fact, it's still going even as I type.

I stopped the error messages by disabling the interface, and now I'll re-enable and see what happens:

Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Closed connection to PowerLinc 2413U
Sent (offline) "Dining Room" status request
Sent (offline) "Dining Room" off
Sent (offline) "Dining Room" off
Disabling interface "INSTEON Commands 7.4.0"
Stopping interface "INSTEON Commands 7.4.0" (pid 1118)
Plugin disable request ignored (plugin is currently stopping or starting)
Stopped interface "INSTEON Commands 7.4.0"


Feb 11, 2020 at 11:00:36 AM
Enabling interface "INSTEON Commands 7.4.0"
Starting interface "INSTEON Commands 7.4.0" (pid 4259)
Started interface "INSTEON Commands 7.4.0"
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)


As soon as I re-enabled the interface, the "resend" errors returned.

And now, just for completeness' sake, I unplugged the PLM (both USB and from the wall), and quit Indigo. Plugged the PLM back in, relaunched Indigo, and re-enabled the interface. I sent a request, and got a send failure. Then nothing for a bit, then "resend" starts over and over (it's like one every 1/2 - 3/4 of a second).

Feb 11, 2020 at 11:06:17 AM
Indigo Cocoa client connected
Enabling interface "INSTEON Commands 7.4.0"
Starting interface "INSTEON Commands 7.4.0" (pid 4267)
Started interface "INSTEON Commands 7.4.0"
Connected to PowerLinc 2413U interface on port usbserial-AK05Z8C2
PowerLinc address 53.BF.50, firmware version 9.14

Feb 11, 2020 at 11:06:50 AM
Error "Kitchen Island" on to 100; send failed (no acknowledgment)

Feb 11, 2020 at 11:07:15 AM
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)
Error resending previous command (busy or unexpected command)


The older Mac mini is running Indigo 7.4, macOS High Sierra 10.13.6. I tried the different FTDI driver, but once I removed the Apple driver (and even after installing the FTDI driver) it wouldn't see the interface at all. And I don't think there's been any updates to 10.13 in years, so I don't think the Apple driver had changed recently to cause all this to begin. (plus, I had the same errors on the new Mini running Catalina).

Posted on
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:57 am
jay (support) offline
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Re: Repeated, consecutive 2413U failures

Ok, so those errors are generally more indicative of signal noise than they are of the FTDI driver issue, though I suppose it could be either one. The next thing I'd try is to get a very long extension cord (like an outdoor one) and run it from a totally different room to the PowerLinc. The further away the better as signal noise, just like Insteon signals, can attenuate over distances. See if that makes any difference.

dschuetz wrote:
But I'm not sure I've ever heard of a protector failing by messing up the power it filtered (intermittently dropping power or such). Usually when they fail, they just stop providing the protection.


Actually, this happens regularly. Older power strips/surge protectors can cause all sorts of signal noise as they start failing. It's happened to me more than once. I highly recommend that you unplug any that are on the same circuit as the PowerLinc, and if that makes no difference then start unplugging them all.

Check out the signal troubleshooting page (http://www.perceptiveautomation.com/ind ... oting.html) for common causes and solutions to signal issues. I'm pretty confident that you've got a noise maker somewhere.

Jay (Indigo Support)
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