Indigo+iPad+Harmony 1100+Insteon

Hi all,

New to the forum and to home automation. Looking forward to getting some information on a system for my loft condo!

I currently use a Harmony 1100 to control my A/V setup. I'm looking to add control to lighting, thermostat, etc, via what seems to be the best option using Insteon products.

I understand an IRlinc is needed to transmit the Harmony remotes RF signal (which I have through the add-on) to Insteon products.

My main question at this point lies in the interface of Indigo, the iPad and my Harmony remote. Is it possible to integrate both the remote and iPad into a system? How would the devices "know" what is on and off. How would they remain "synced" to the operation of all the equipment. Or, more simply, if the TV was turned on from the Harmony, would the iPad (running Indigo) "know" the TV was on?

What else might I need to know to run such a system?

Thanks so much!

[jay (support)]

I understand an IRlinc is needed to transmit the Harmony remotes RF signal (which I have through the add-on) to Insteon products.

The IRLincs are one-way - you either get a transmitter, which sends IR signals to some other equipment, or you get the receiver, which receives IR commands and sends out an INSTEON group command. The answer to your question below implies you need both. You can, of course, buy both, but it's been the general experience of users here that the IRLincs are pretty difficult to set up and maintain. I would suggest going with another solution such as the Global Cache IR devices along with one of the GC plugins that are available from 3rd parties or the IRTrans hardware with the iRed software (which you can connect to Indigo via AppleScript). Search the forums using those and you should find a bunch of different hits.

My main question at this point lies in the interface of Indigo, the iPad and my Harmony remote. Is it possible to integrate both the remote and iPad into a system? How would the devices "know" what is on and off. How would they remain "synced" to the operation of all the equipment. Or, more simply, if the TV was turned on from the Harmony, would the iPad (running Indigo) "know" the TV was on?

So, given the nature of how IR devices work, you can never be positive of a device state since there is no way to use IR commands to query a device to get it's state. The Harmony assumes that it's the only controller and so if things get out of whack you have to turn everything off and then set the Harmony so that it thinks everything is off. If you use it as the only controller, this tends to work pretty well (I have a couple of them).

However, when you start mixing and matching different control devices, things will quickly become much more complicated. It's possible to do what you want (though it's kinda fraught with peril): what you need is to have a device that will both enable Indigo to trigger the sending of IR commands to control your equipment AND allow Indigo to receive IR commands that are going from the Harmony to the device - allowing Indigo to keep device states in sync. So, for instance, if you turn on the TV from the Harmony, the IR device will tell Indigo that the "turn on" ir command to the TV was received - that will allow Indigo to update the state of your TV so it'll show that it's on.

The big problem there is that there is no corollary on the Harmony side - when you turn on the TV through Indigo and the IR device, the Harmony will get out of sync with no good way to get it back in sync. So, you'll need to be prepared for a couple of things if you want to do this:

1. The Harmony will pretty much be hopelessly out of sync - you can't depend on using those nice helpful "Watch a movie" buttons which you press and forget. The devices will most likely not be in the state the Harmony thinks so you'll need to continuously press the "Watch a movie" button to make sure it'll work.
2. Setting up the device state management in Indigo is going to be pretty time consuming - you'll need to get the IR device (specified above) to send the appropriate signals to Indigo (minimum on/off), somehow represent the device state in Indigo (variables probably), and build some mechanism to resync them when things get out of sync (someone presses the physical button on the TV to turn it off, after a power loss, etc.)

The alternative, of course, is to not worry about "remembering" which devices are on/off. The upside is you don't have to build the state management stuff in Indigo. The downside is the same as #1 - when controlling from the Harmony, you have to make sure you have the right device selected each time you use the remote. It may be a minor problem depending on how often you interchange between the iPad and the Harmony - if you use the Harmony almost all the time and the iPad rarely (or vice versa) it may not turn out to be a big problem.

Just my opinion - I'm sure there are plenty of others with different approaches and upside/downside. Also, I'm a bit biased - I really dislike using touch screens for my AV controls - I don't like having to look at the device to use a remote. Give me hard buttons of various shapes, sizes, and positioning any day so I can just control by touch...

Thank you for the in-depth response. Much appreciated.

This begs the question (realizing, of course, that you are not a touch screen remote guy): In an automation system such as what I'm looking at, is it more ideal for the Harmony remote to just go away and the iPad control everything? CAN the iPad easily control all A/V and lighting/home automation? How about keeping an iPhone (or iPod touch) and iPad in sync within Indigo? Is that possible?

Cheers

I use virtually all discrete IR codes. Great for 1 button press setups, such as "Watch TV" which
works very well and keeps everything in sync....mostly because with discrete commands
it doesn't matter what state the device may be in. For instance if the TV is already on
and you send a discrete "on" command the TV will just stay on.

Might want to check if your devices support them and if so there are a ton of them for download at remotecentral.com

Also, just because your device remotes don't have separate buttons for something like
on or off doesn't mean they don't support a discrete code for that function.
I was amazed at how many codes were available for even my older gear.

I use a Harmony One, as I still find it easier to navigate with hard buttons, that
when "Watch TV" is pressed sends a single "dummy" code to my IRTrans that
when received has Indigo send whatever codes are necessary for that setup.

Carl

I have a Crestron one-way IR/RS232 setup in addition to Indigo. I'd keep the Harmony for your AV control if it is working well, unless you want to reprogram entirely for Indigo Touch.

In my system I had the IRed/IRTrans (previously IRLinc) and Crestron learn the same remote control command set - just an arbitrary remote that has no other use in my system. On button press, the Crestron sends an IR code to the IRTrans/iRed; it is relayed to Indigo via an applescript trigger. Not flawless but works well enough for lights, climate and whole house audio.

In my opinion, if you already have a working AV setup, keeping the home theater equipment and home automation tasks divided works well. You don't have to relay through another interface, the Crestron (in your case Harmony) just directly address the TV, DVR, etc, and they are always at the ready, not needing to boot up. Nonetheless there are a lot of advantages to the single interface with Indigo Touch too, if you are up to re-programming.

Any way to program a hex code into the IRLinc without having a programable remote? I'd like to program a discrete off, but my remote control only has a power toggle.

I found the code online, but no way to input it I guess.

[matt (support)]

Unfortunately, not that I'm aware of. It can be pretty frustrating to configure the IR-Linc. Most folks have better luck with one of the Global Cache devices (like the iTach) and Perry's Cynical Cache plugin.