Recommendations for remote temperature sensors (air)

berkinet-

Thanks for the help. Normally, I reside in San Francisco (where it's cold, but not THAT cold). The location I need to monitor the temperature in/around is New Hampshire, where it does go well below freezing. Usual stories of pipes freezing, etc.

I'm in New Hampshire now. I'll ask around here, but don't expect much success (I'll have to drive a decent distance just to get to a Radio Shack to ask!). Maybe I'll poke around YouTube as well.

Further suggestions welcome.

Another suggestion is to practice soldering wires together. Start with heavy gage wires and gradually work your way to finer and finer wires. A good selection of wire as well as a small (~25 watt soldering iron) can all be ordered online or from radio shack. That way you are nor risking expensive electronics until you are comfortable with your soldering skills. Also, consider checking out http://www.electronickits.com/. In particular, checkout their AK100 - LEARN TO SOLDER KIT. Electronic kits are a great way to learn and practice your soldering skills and you might just end up with some useful gadgets, as a bonus.

One thing I don't understand is how to get the temperature (and/or other analog) sensors to places far away from a USB (other?) connection. Am I missing something or are Phidgit sensors limited to the space immediately around a computer?

The Interface Kit connects to the computer via USB. It comes with a six-foot cable. The sensors attach to the Kit via a cable. They come with two-foot cable. That set-up *is* limiting, only eight feet. However, with a longer USB cable (up to 16 feet) and a longer sensor cable (they sell up to 140-inch models), you can actually get some good distance. And if you go with USB over Cat 5, you're pretty much home free.

I considered the EZIO8SA solution myself, but heard Bad Things about its reliability -- one person wrote to me that they "could never get the inputs to work reliably and the outputs (relays) sometimes would go on or off by themselves." Not what I want in a key sensor. But your use may have more threshold for error than mine.....

I hope this helps,

The cheapest and relatively easy solution I've found is 1-wire through using a LinkUSB and T-Senses from http://www.ibuttonlink.com/. For about $100, I was able to monitor four rooms. The disadvantage is that you may need to run 4-conductor wire to each monitor.

You have this working on a Mac?

Does anyone have any recommendations for a current templinc type of device that is remote? I understand the Insteon enabled Venstar thermostats won't send temps from remote probes. I'd really like two to three probes to automate some attic fans and my central AC off of. Just the main thermostat doesn't cut it.

Any recommendations around cost and complexity? Interval monitoring is fine, wireless is preferred, but wired is not impossible.

actually that isn't true, if you hook up the duct sensor (http://www.smarthome.com/30409/Venstar-Remote-Duct-Digital-Temperature-Sensor-Wire/p.aspx) to S1 within your Venstar, you can put the probe wherever you like (with enough wire), and then you can, on Program 26, change which sensor is the 'default' sensor, out of the box its the ambient air temp, but you can make it S1, i do this for my radiant floor heat where i have the sensor reading the floor temp, and that drives when heat goes on/off. It works quite well actually.

In addition, the 1800 supports an 'S2' second, secondary temp sensor which they lablel 'outiside', which can also be installed simultaneously (i've spoken with Venstar about this, if you want directions on wiring feel free to contact me), so my Venstar has three sensors: 1) ambient air (default), 2) floor temp (S1 in Venstar terms) and 3) S2 (outside in Venstar Terms).

The downside of the system is that Indigo only reads which sensor is being used, so for me, since i have the floor temp as the set point trigger, Indigo only gets that temp reading, not the ambient, built-in air temp, or the outdoor temp. My Venstar however, does show the current and hi/lo S2 (outdoor) temp on it. all this and no soldering required.

Hopefully Insteon someday will rework the RF module to the Venstar to enable Indigo to poll all this data...

For soldering. Basic rules:

Heat the iron. Once it will mellt solder, wait another minute or 2.

Keep the tip *clean* wipe it off often with a wet spine or rag. (If you feel there is a 'cold spot' on the tip, it needs cleaning)

Use the right size watt iron. An 80W to solder a TO92 is TOO MUCH
Too small an iron too long to heat things up. 25W is good for up to, I feel, 14 gauge wire.

Heat the items up *before* trying to add solder.

Never put the solder to the tip. Put it to the part aka: heat the part hot enough to melt the solder. (ok, thats text book. I tend to touch the solder to the tip for a quick bit. Get the internal flux to flow aiding the true soldering. Also heating a lead long enough to melt the solder, can cause damage. read the data sheets! They will spec out the soldering time at a temp.)

Sometime a little solder flow help heat the item better.

The right size/shape tip can help too.

Cleaning the finished solder joint is a good thing to do. A little alcohol or acetone will work. Flux remover is overkill for a quick job. Flux is a mild acid and will mess with things over time if not cleaned off (lead free solder is not the same as no clean solder)

And remember the heat shrink *before* soldering, if needed (not like I did that like 50 or 60 times before )

All-

Can't get the EZIO8SA to read the temperature from the LM34DZ (SmartHome product ID 1523; Temperature Sensing IC chip). Analog Input 1 on the EZIO8SA reads 510 in Indigo and doesn't change. Ambient temperature is approx. 65F.

I soldered the three leads of the LM34DZ to three wires on some spare Cat 5 cable (3 ft).:

Connected Orange to +V(s) on the chip and to 12V+ on the EZIO8SA.
Connected Brown to GND on the chip and to GND on the EZIO8SA.
Connected White with Brown to V(out) on the chip and to AN1 on the EZIO8SA.

Indigo inputs for the EZIO8SA read:

Binary Inputs: 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0
Analog Inputs: 510, 0
Sensor Inputs: 0

The above is a bit inconsistent in that there are 4 binary inputs, 2 analog inputs (that can be converted to binary inputs), and a single 1-wire (?) sensor input (via a RJ12 or RJ11 jack). I would think that the binary inputs should read: 0, 0, 0, 0.

Is there something I need to change on the EZIO8SA to get it to read the chip? I think I'd be getting a reading of 650 (=65F) or 800 (=80F) when I put the hair dryer on it. Instead, just 510.

Got a multimeter? Set it to DC volts and measure across Gnd and Vout.

Also check Gnd to V+ for 12V.

Check at the sensor end as well as the EZIO end. As you are probably aware the output for the LM34DZ is 0.01V/°F so at 65° you should get 0.65V.

As for what the EZIO should be reading... I see a discrepancy between smarthome's product page, which says the range is 0-5V, whereas the manual for the EZIO says 0 to 3.3 V. Whatever the case, the data you get will be an integer in the range of 0-1023 scaled to that voltage range.

So at 65 °F, and supposing 3.3 is the full-scale input voltage for the EZIO, your reading should be:

65 * 0.01 * 1023 / 3.3

== 202

As for the binary inputs... depending on how the EZIO is wired internally, those may give garbage values when nothing is connected. You could wire them all to ground if you want to be sure they read zeroes.

Also note that a reading of 510 is almost exactly 1/2 scale. That could be a coincidence but I would suspect it indicates no connection at all to the input. Check those CAT5 connections...

Sean-

Thanks for your reply. I don't have a multimeter, but think I can borrow one early this week. Will test and report back.

Thanks again for your help.

OK. Borrowed a multimeter. I think the problem may be with Indigo. Here's what the multimeter reported:

GND and +V(s): 20.1V
GND and AN1: .654V

The 20.1V is a bit surprising, because the EZIO8SA is labeled as 12V+ (not 20V).

The .654V matches the approximate room temperature.

IMPORTANTLY, the voltage between GND and AN1 reported BY THE MULTIMETER changes in response to a hairdryer turned towards the LM34DZ chip. The voltage reported BY THE MULTIMETER goes up rapidly to .96V then gradually recedes when the hairdryer is turned off. This is as expected/is good news.

HOWEVER, Indigo reports Analog Output 1 on the EZIO8SA as "638" (not far off/close enough), but that figure does not CHANGE (ever). 638 is different than the 510 reported in my earlier post, but appears to have been the result of re-booting the EZIO's PowerLinc Modem (unplugging/replugging the PLM from the power outlet).

What do I need to do to properly set up Indigo to read the Analog Output on the EZIO?

[matt (support)]

Are you sending the EZIO8SA a status request message? You have to poll out the analog input values from it -- it doesn't broadcast out changes. You can define, using the UI in Indigo, trip points which will cause the EZIO8SA to change the binary input state from 0 to 1 (and from 1 to 0) as the trip threshold values are crossed, but to get the actual values out you'll need to periodically poll it via a status request.

Are you sending the EZIO8SA a status request message? You have to poll out the analog input values from it -- it doesn't broadcast out changes. You can define, using the UI in Indigo, trip points which will cause the EZIO8SA to change the binary input state from 0 to 1 (and from 1 to 0) as the trip threshold values are crossed, but to get the actual values out you'll need to periodically poll it via a status request.

So does Indigo scale the reading to millivolts? That's the only way his reading could be correct.

[matt (support)]

Indigo returns the integer value the EZIO8SA gives it, which is in the range of 0 to 1023 based on 0 to 5VDC (I think). I haven't tested it in over a year but when I last tried it with a POT and +5VDC, I got what was expected.

However, if he isn't polling out the status then we have no idea when Indigo last read the analog value out.

Matt/Jay and Sean-

I'm logging in from the Indigo client (on a different Mac than the one running Indigo server), highlighting the EZIO8SA in the Devices tab/section, then clicking on the "Get Input/Output Status" button at the bottom of the devices window.

Analog Inputs are reported as: 638,0

638 appears to be in the ballpark/very close to actual (assuming 638 is in millivolts = 0.638V or 63.8F), but it never changes, no matter how many times I click on the "Get Input/Output Status" button.

This leads me to believe that Indigo is not communicating properly with the EZIO. Is there something basic I need to do during the device "set up" in Indigo to get this working?

If I double-click on the EZIO, and then click on the "Edit Module Settings" I have "Enable analog inputs" checked. That's all. I don't want on/off trip points (yet). Just want to read the voltage output from the LM34DZ chip (i.e., read the ambient temperature).

What does "Continuous analog conversion (once per second)" do? Do I need to click on "Upload All Settings" or just "Close?"

Thanks for your help you guys. Feel like I'm close to getting this working, but must be missing something simple. Happy to report the problem is not my soldering! Multimeter reports same voltages (and voltage changes with hair dryer) at both ends of the Cat5 cable!

[matt (support)]

Here are the docs from SimpleHomeNet about the analog inputs:

Code: Select all

Analog/Digital Inputs Details: The inputs labeled AN1 and AN2 in the above diagram may be used as analog inputs by applying a voltage between 0 and +5VDC. For accurate readings the source impedance should be relatively low or less than 25K ohms as the A/D converter presents an input impedance of about 3K ohms. When using these inputs in the analog mode and trip points (alarms) are programmed, the converted digital (0—1023) value is compared against programmable limits for both OFF to ON and ON to OFF values. These inputs may also be used with logic levels, with a voltage higher than 2VDC representing a logic 1 or OFF condition (reverse logic). Notice that in the event of using these inputs for contact closures, pull-up resistors (a value of 10K ohms is recommended) must be connected be- tween the inputs and a suitable +5VDC source.

All Indigo does is query out the raw value (0 to 1023) as two bytes. If you aren't seeing different values as you repeatedly press the Get Input/Output Status button every few seconds, then I suspect your EZIO8SA may not be functioning correctly. Have you tried contacting SimpleHomeNet support?

Your settings sound correct -- you need Enable analog inputs checked. After you check it, you do need to press the Upload All Settings button if you haven't yet. Other than that, it sounds like you have it configured correctly and the same way I had my configured when I originally tested it with Indigo.