Hi,

I have started building my home automation around a brand called Xanura, it seems to be an upgraded version of the Marmitek stuff, but it has some very nice extra features.

(Apart from the fact that xanura tends to send every command twice for reliability)

I've run into a "problem" here.

Xanura makes some really nifty devices called "on/off interfaces" and "dimmer interfaces"
You can connect up to 4 pulse switches and it then sends x10 on/off or dim commands to up to 4 adresses.
Very nice.

They however have some extra features that you can only enable by "programming" them through x10.

This is done by pressing a program button on the unit, the unit then listens to x10 commands to toggle functions on and off.

-send an adress twice, and from then on it listens to that adress.
-send "all lights on" twice, and all lights on is enabled on the unit.
-some more features, if you are interested i'll document them

now for the problem:
Two of the most important features wont let themselves be set.

-I'll need to be able to send "Hail acknowledge" twice to set the "Toggle on/off" setting, to make the switch send on and off in turn instead of just sending "on" every time you press a button. Can this be done somehow?

-it should be possible to set "status replying" by sending "off" twice right after you set the address.
Somehow this wont work, while the other settings work fine.
Is there something special about the way Indigo or the CM11 sends "off"?
Or would it be possible to send the code for "off" without an address?

Bottom line, is there a way to send raw X10 data through Indigo alltogether?

Needless to say that would be crucial for me to get these nifty devices to work with indigo.

(By the way, I'm using a CM11 as X10 interface.)

Thanks a lot for any input.

Bye,
Tony

BTW Matt, I'm almost done testing the type of commands that the Xanura dimmer units respond to, I'll let you know about the details as soon as I get it all right, this in response to your reply to my "gradual dimming" question.
Xanura dimmers respond to on and off by neatly dimming on and off in three seconds or so.
Also they respond to status inquiries.
They do listen to extended x10 too.

Hi Tony,

tonytee wrote:I'll need to be able to send "Hail acknowledge" twice to set the "Toggle on/off" setting, to make the switch send on and off in turn instead of just sending "on" every time you press a button. Can this be done somehow?

There isn't a way to do this directly within the Indigo UI, but I just added a couple of AppleScript verbs to a beta I posted:

http://www.perceptiveautomation.com/ind ... o_beta.dmg

You'll want to do something likes this:

tell application "Indigo"
  send x10 hail request to address "a1"
  send x10 hail request to address "a1"
end tell

tonytee wrote:it should be possible to set "status replying" by sending "off" twice right after you set the address.

I'm not sure why this isn't working. You can try it via AppleScript like this:

tell application "Indigo"
  send x10 off to address "a1"
  send x10 off to address "a1"
end tell

It isn't possible to send commands with Indigo (even via AppleScript) without sending the full address. This may be why it isn't working, I'm not sure. If this is the case, then you'll need to use one of the Maxi Controllers to send the codes. Note there isn't a way within the X10 protocol to send a function by itself -- it always includes the house code of the address that is targeted with the function code. So the Maxi Controller can send something like "A Off A Off", whereas Indigo always wants to send the full address including the device code. Unfortunately, changing this is non-trivial within Indigo. You can send addresses by themselves via the "send x10 address" AppleScript verb, but there is no way to not send a complete address with an X10 function.

Let me know if you can get it to work via the AppleScript verbs.

regards,
Matt

tonytee wrote:Hi,

I have started building my home automation around a brand called Xanura, it seems to be an upgraded version of the Marmitek stuff, but it has some very nice extra features.

Is there some info out there on this brand in English? My Google search just shows German.

tell application "Indigo"
  send x10 hail request to address "a1"
  send x10 hail request to address "a1"
end tell

I've tried this, the unit won't respond to it.
The manualcard however says that it should be 2x Hail Acknowledge instead of Hail Request, so thats probably the prob.

(I've tried "hail request" in the script but it wont be recognised)

For these kind of things wouldn't it be possible to have some kind of "command line" in which you can just put some raw HEX characters to send, like a modem init string but then for the x10 stuff? as a hidden feature maybe ?

Sending "address off address off" still doesnt work.
I'm afraid the unit expects something like "address address" (to set the address) and then "off off" to toggle the function.

This would explain why only this function won't listen, because the other functions are set by "all lights on all lights on" "all units off all units off" and "all lights off all lights off".
These commands are "addressless" by default or am I wrong?

If I understand you correct the X10 protocol itself doesnt allow for this just-"offoff" ploy at all?
What if I start talking to the CM11 with some terminal emulator?
would that help me somehow?

The translation of the reference card enclosed with the unit says:

! - First thing to do in programming mode is setting the address by sending the address twice, only after this the device listens to the other settings. (led blinks twice)
- On reception of a new address the optional features will be reset.

(This is how I broke the status reply, I changed the address, and status replay isn't a default, however when I pulled it out of the box it DID listen to status requests)

There IS a solution to this. Buy a programming device from Xanura.
It will set me back about $650.
After that I wont be needing it anymore.

To gregjsmith...
I think Xanura is a Dutch-only brand. (of Holec)
However I found some english pages describing the Marmitek version of these units.
http://www.marmitek.com/eng_site/base_n ... ubgroep=27
I am talking about the TMA4 (Called AIX by Xanura)
I havent tried it, but they SEEM to be exactly alike. They might have another (simpler) software however.
I think your biggest problem would be that this stuff is 220Volts.
If I would get it to work my guess is that its the most versatile X10 stuff I've tried sofar.

regards and thanks a lot,

Tony

tonytee wrote:I've tried "hail request" in the script but it wont be recognised

The 2 verbs I added are:

send x10 hail request
send x10 hail ack

I abbreviated acknowledge as ack.

tonytee wrote:For these kind of things wouldn't it be possible to have some kind of "command line" in which you can just put some raw HEX characters to send, like a modem init string but then for the x10 stuff?

Unfortunately, it wouldn't be that easy on my end. All of the interface layers inside Indigo really want to send full addresses with function codes.

tonytee wrote:Sending "address off address off" still doesnt work.
I'm afraid the unit expects something like "address address" (to set the address) and then "off off" to toggle the function.

That is possible, but I've never seen an X10 device that is programmed that way. You are probably right though, because that would explain why it doesn't work. You can send an independent address, so you could use AppleScript to send "address address function address function." But there isn't a way to do "function function" by itself.

tonytee wrote:If I understand you correct the X10 protocol itself doesnt allow for this just-"offoff" ploy at all?

Correct. Each X10 packet sent on the powerline is either a full address pair (house code & device code), or it is a house code and function code pair. For example, "A1 A4 A2 AOff" is a valid command sequence. But there is no way to send an "Off" without also having a house code in the packet. Indigo doesn't have a way to send just an "AOff" even though it is a valid packet, but can send just an address ("A1") or a full address / command combo ("A4 AOff").

tonytee wrote:What if I start talking to the CM11 with some terminal emulator?

The CM11 doesn't communicate via ASCII, so a term emulator won't help.

tonytee wrote:First thing to do in programming mode is setting the address by sending the address twice, only after this the device listens to the other settings.

Are you doing this? Maybe the device is never entering the programming mode (that doesn't sound possible since you can program some of the other settings)? You have to use AppleScript to send the raw address also. You'll want to do something like:

send x10 address "A1"
send x10 address "A1"

tonytee wrote:There IS a solution to this. Buy a programming device from Xanura. It will set me back about $650.

Eak! We don't want you to do that, for sure. Let me know if any of the above works.

regards,
Matt

Hello Matt

First off, let me say the support you're providing only is worth the money I paid for Indigo.
That and ofcourse the disappearing of the nag-screen

My findings sofar.

I found a solution. Partly.

I got the offoff thing working. That means I can toggle the feature "Status request" on and off on the xanura interface thinggy.
Too bad it didn't exactly do what I thought it would do.
The result is that the device after it sends "on" sends a "status request" and if the lamp doesnt respond it sends "on" again. And on and on.
I thought it ment that I (Indigo) could do a status request to the switch.
Something like a memory for the dimmers and switch actuators that dont do status.
Well I was wrong.

How I got it working:
I disabled "group addresses on transmission" in the prefs!

I noticed this in the log:
Sent X10 G1 off (address)
Sent X10 G1 off
Why this difference? You guessed it probably. I did too. I think.
Don't know if I'm right about this, but it does make a difference somehow.

So.
I pressed the program button on the device.
did send x10 address "g1" twice
then did send x10 off to address "g1" twice.

Boldly going where no-one had gone before.

But for the bad news.
The same with "hail ack" DOESNT work.
And this is the most important to me.
It will make the switches toggle on/off instead of just sending "on"
I do exactly the same as with the offoff thing, which I can reproduce more than once, but with "hail ack" no dice.
Are you sure you have the right code for "hail ack"? I can't check this other than that the Indigo log says it sent ack.
The CM11 documentation speaks of "Hail ack" so at least that thing knows that it exists. (binary 1001 it says in those docs if i'm right)

The story continues.
With some progress however.
Hopefully before christmas I'll get this lot working.
It's a hell of a hobby

regards,
Tony

Update...

It works.

I used my RF remote control to do G1 on G1 on
(what the difference is between the RF and Indigo? I havent got a clue)

and then I used Indigo by doing

send x10 hail ack to address "g1" twice

Cant explain it but its the only way it works.

Cheers for the hail ack hack.
It did make a difference.
I hope I can nag you guys some more as soon as I get to the real automating itself...
After this experience its safe to say that this xanura stuff, although its hard to program, is exactly what i was looking for.

cheers,

Tony

I hadn't thought about the "group addresses on transmission" pref -- good catch! It was being a little too efficient in this case.

I'm not sure why the RF controller works -- the same X10 sequence should be put on the power line when Indigo sends it. ??? I'm glad you found a way to make it work though!

regards,
Matt

I know it's a very very old post, but I'm actually having the same problem and I cannot solve it. I've got a xanura aix/tiwo4 micromodule and I would like to program it in alternate mode. To do that I need to send two hail ack messages. I made an action gruop in indigo with an embedded applescript which just says:
send x10 hail hack to address "C1"
send x10 hail hack to address "C1"
I compile and run it while the micromodule is in programming mode but nothing happens. While trying and trying again it happened something very strange: after running the action, the micromodule blinked twice and it reprogrammed itself with address N9. So, it just makes me wonder if the hail hack code is sent correctly by indigo. It seems the micromodule received the N9 on command. Can any of you help me ?
Thanks in advance

Given that it did nothing at first and then picked up the wrong address N9, it makes me think this is a signal problem. Can you try moving your power line interface (CM11/12) to a different outlet or two to see if that makes a difference?