Cynical Denon - Denon and Marantz AV Receiver control

Looks like the tiff from my vmware on mac isn't appearing. Here as png...

More info... I believe this suggests a standard off the shelf serial cable is what is called for.

Spent the entire afternoon trying to make this work. I have concluded that the cable, Startech, and Denon are all good. Using Hercules client and direct connection to the Denon, I can switch from on to standby, mute, volume, etc. All works fine. That leaves me with the problem is either settings or the plugin (sorry Perry: I do not mean to be critical and it may very well be the settings). Startech said if the Denon initiates the connection then Startech port mode should be RawServer. That is consistent with my Russound that works fine. Not sure about flow control. Russound uses none. I have tried the other three options with Denon. 9600,none,and 1 match the Denon manual. I am running out of things to try and worse yet, I do not know how to diagnose any further. I know this can work but I just can't get the right combination of things. Does anyone know of anyone who has a Denon AVR-3806 or similar model working with Startech?

Startech said if the Denon initiates the connection then Startech port mode should be RawServer. That is consistent with my Russound that works fine. Not sure about flow control. Russound uses none. I have tried the other three options with Denon. 9600,none,and 1 match the Denon manual.

See, that's why I'm confused: what does "Denon initiates the connection" even mean? A serial without flow lines is always-on. To the extent that you want a "connection" at all, it should start when the network client connects and last until it goes away, regardless of what the Denon is doing.

Seriously: You need to debug with telnet. Get a friend to help if that confuses you. This lets you distinguish between problems in the plugin and problems further down (Startech or network layer).

Cheers
-- perry

What I meant is that when I use Hercules (like telnet) and open the serial port and then power up the Denon (physically), the Denon sends a string of data. That is what I meant by the Denon initiates the connection. The string that the Denon sends is PWSTANDBYZMOFFZ2OFFZ3OFFMSDOLBY PL2X M. The contents of that string is consistent with what the plugin reports: standby mode, zone main, etc.

Did you do a check on what voltages appear on the Russound RS232 connector. If it is the same as what you see on the Denon, it would suggest the problem is in the plugin. But, if not, you may have your answer.

What I meant is that when I use Hercules (like telnet) and open the serial port and then power up the Denon (physically), the Denon sends a string of data. That is what I meant by the Denon initiates the connection. The string that the Denon sends is PWSTANDBYZMOFFZ2OFFZ3OFFMSDOLBY PL2X M. The contents of that string is consistent with what the plugin reports: standby mode, zone main, etc.

Ah! Sorry; Hercules meant nothing to me.
Well, if data is flowing over telnet, then it's likely to be a problem with the plugin.

In the plugin's Debug Modules field, enter denon.avr. Reload and exercise. Then send me the resulting Indigo log. (You can mail it instead of posting if you prefer; it might be longish.)

Cheers
-- perry

Perhaps best to mail. If you don't mind send me your email address to john@patrickweb.com

Long but not that many bytes: Here it is.

Aug 17, 2013 3:11:15 PM
Cynical Denon module denon.avr enabled debugging
Reloading plugin "Cynical Denon 1.5.1"
Stopping plugin "Cynical Denon 1.5.1" (pid 15274)
Cynical Denon shutdown sensed
Cynical Denon Denon Receiver stopping
Stopped plugin "Cynical Denon 1.5.1"
Starting plugin "Cynical Denon 1.5.1" (pid 17456)
Cynical Denon module denon.avr enabled debugging
Started plugin "Cynical Denon 1.5.1"
Cynical Denon mapping device "Denon Receiver" 73947687(avreceiver)
Cynical Denon Denon Receiver starting
Cynical Denon Denon Receiver connecting to host
Cynical Denon plugin starting asyn operation
Cynical Denon Denon Receiver is now exploring
Cynical Denon -> TFHD?
Cynical Denon Denon Receiver enabling idle probes
Cynical Denon <- <Ctx:unknown> Welcome to Telnet configuration mode.(?+<Enter> for help)
Cynical Denon -> TFAN?
Cynical Denon -> Z2?
Cynical Denon -> Z3?
Cynical Denon -> Z4?
Cynical Denon -> Z5?
Cynical Denon -> Z6?
Cynical Denon -> Z7?
Cynical Denon -> Z8?
Cynical Denon -> Z9?
Cynical Denon -> ZM?
Cynical Denon -> MU?
Cynical Denon -> MV?
Cynical Denon -> SI?
Cynical Denon -> SV?
Cynical Denon -> TMHD?
Cynical Denon -> SR?
Cynical Denon -> PSFRONT?
Cynical Denon -> HD?
Cynical Denon -> PSTRE ?
Cynical Denon -> VSAUDIO ?
Cynical Denon -> TFHD?
Cynical Denon -> VSMONI ?
Cynical Denon -> TFHD?
Cynical Denon -> PSDYNEQ ?
Cynical Denon -> TPHD?
Cynical Denon -> PSCINEMA EQ. ?
Cynical Denon -> PSMODE: ?
Cynical Denon -> PSTONE CTRL ?
Cynical Denon -> PSDCO ?
Cynical Denon -> PSDYNVOL ?
Cynical Denon -> PSREFLEV ?
Cynical Denon -> PSRSTR ?
Cynical Denon -> PSBAS ?
Cynical Denon -> SD?
Cynical Denon -> VSVPM ?
Cynical Denon -> VSASP ?
Cynical Denon -> TMHD?
Cynical Denon -> VSSCH ?
Cynical Denon -> PW?
Cynical Denon -> VSSC ?
Cynical Denon -> MS?
Cynical Denon -> PSMULTEQ: ?
Cynical Denon -> PSDRC ?
Cynical Denon -> MSQUICK ?
Cynical Denon -> DC?
Cynical Denon -> CV?
Cynical Denon zones M
Cynical Denon Denon Receiver is now standby

Aha! Look at this... everything is fine until the plugin starts probing the Denon and sends it its first command, and then...

Cynical Denon Denon Receiver is now exploring
Cynical Denon -> TFHD?
Cynical Denon Denon Receiver enabling idle probes
Cynical Denon <- <Ctx:unknown> Welcome to Telnet configuration mode.(?+<Enter> for help)

The Startech sends a reply Welcome to Telnet configuration mode.(?+ <Enter> for help). So at this point, for some reason, sending commands to the Startech does not actually forward them to the Denon, but instead engages some local mode in the network box. That presumably is why we don't get any replies from the Denon...

(Arguably, the plugin should just flag an error and give up at that point, but there's enough different Denon receivers out there that crapping out on any unexpected reply would make it not work with a bunch of receiver types that otherwise work just fine.)

I have no idea what mode you're tickling here. (Google has no match for that string.) You may want to scour your Startech manual for telnet configuration mode and see how you can keep it from happening...

Cheers
-- perry

It is likely that the plugin is sending a data escape string during the "Cynical Denon Denon Receiver enabling idle probes" process. I am not sure if this applies to your Startech device. But, in the manual I found here, it looks like you need to place the Startech into raw mode, probably Raw Mode - Client

Raw Mode - Server

This mode is used to establish a raw connection to the device. In this mode, the device accepts those settings specified for the “local port” in the Port Settings dialog box as its serial port settings. Operating as a server, the device opens the serial portand buffers serial port data until a client (PC) retrieves it.
Applications: Remote monitoring, security systems.
Raw Mode - Client

This mode is used to establish a raw connection to the device. In this mode,
the device accepts the settings specified for the “local port” in the Port Settings dialog box as its serial port settings. Operating as a client, the device directs that port to wait for data from server (PC), then open the serial port and transmit data. In this mode, the user specifies a target IP address and TCP port for the device to use.
Applications: Remote control.

Could this setting be useful?

I don't think that message will affect anything. You need the IP side of the Startech box to ignore everything it sees and just pass it on to the serial interface.

You might try assigning the serial port "Local Port" another IP port number, say 10232, and then configure that same port in the Denon plugin.

Sorry I am just guessing here. I know how these types of boxes work in general, but the specific instruction set is different for each one.

BTW, exactly which Startech adapter do you have?

Hello Berkinet, and thank you for your interest. The Startech is the NETRS232_1, a single port device with RS232 and Cat 5. I am attaching here all the settings. Perhaps one of them will jump out at you as being wrong. I hope so. You may have seen in earlier post that I am able to control the Denon AVF-3806 with Hercules. Hercules is a network client that Denon recommends for testing. I can send any of the many commands available and they all work. One thing that doesn't make sense though is that when I power up the Denon from OFF, it sends a string saying that it is in Standby even though the unit has a source selected and is playing music.

Well, just taking a stab here...

I'd set DTR and RTS to always active, and also set Permit Connection on Data to Yes. But, I think the real key is to set the Port to raw mode client, if you can find that.